Wind Farm Madness : Melbourne Indymedia

In an outrageous move the Federal Government has quashed a hige new Wind Farm Project down in Gippsland on the grounds that it "might" lead to the death of one threatened parrot per year. This is despite an independant panel finding that the area of the wind farm was not even in the migration zone of the parrot and that there have not been any sighting of the parrot in the area recently.
Meanwhile the same government that has put a stop to this attempt to generate electricity in a green way and therefore help fight Climate Change is busilly propping and supporting the coal industry, selling uranium to anyone who will buy it and refusing to sign Kyoto.
To make matters even crazier or ironic - the proposed wind farm is located in Gippsland - the site of the logging of the ancient old growth forests that continues unabated. Suffice to say that the logging in East Gippsland is killing more than "one parrot a year".
I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Its about time that the Green movement started tackling the anti-windfarm lobby head on. I have even meant so called environmentalists who oppose the constructions of windfarms. This is total bullshit. In Europe - numerous anti-windfarm groups have been linked to the nuclear lobby. Windfarms are a safe, clean, green and cheap form of renewable energy and the Feds need to be condemned for this action. In one stroke they have undermined the investment climate for large scale renewables. A truly dark day for efforts to combat climate change.

In England and Australia it is obvious that dark forces are subverting and helping to suppress the introduction of renewable energy including wind energy.

In England the anti-wind lobby took off in 1992 with a group called Country Guardians. This group's chair is Sir Bernard Ingham, who is a paid lobbyist for British Nuclear Fuels and was also the Press Secretary for ex-pm Margaret Thatcher.

Nuclear energy is used in England and the nuclear industry is currently trying to convince the world of their usefulness in fighting climate change. Of course, the emergence of renewable energy would threaten their evil plans hence their willingness to set-up anti-wind front groups.

In Australia, we have the Coastal Guardians Victoria. How original! This group appears to be a one-man show by the name of Tim Le Roy who lives in Glen Iris who writes lots of letters to the papers.

timleroy@optusnet.com.au

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't recall any wind turbines being proposed for Glen Iris, an affluent, leafy inner suburb of Melbourne. I wander how our friend, Tim got himself involved in this contentious debate?

In regard to the parrot debacle, I read in yesterday's news that Tim Le Roy was a spokesperson for Tarwin Valley Coastal Guardians-the local group fighting the Gippsland wind turbines. Tarwin Valley is a long way from Glen Iris.

Intrigued by this anti-wind warrior, Tim Le Roy, I googled his past press appearances. He claims to have got involved in this area because of a conversation he once had with a reportedly arrogant wind turbine developer. Up til than, he claims he was a "big supporter of the wind energy".

Tim, when quizzed on what he proposes as an alternative in order to deal with climate change, can only focus on the indespensiblity of fossil fuels.

I am not making this up. The whole sorry interview transcipt with Geraldine Doogue on Radio National can be found here:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/saturday/stories/s1514383.htm

He is quite welcome to sue me, but I am putting on the public record that Tim Le Roy's behaviour and statements are dodgy.

This guy is whizzing around the countyside whipping up hysteria against wind farms. BTW it is not hard to play to farmer and smalltown prejudice against the "wicked green agenda". This campaign of misinformation is aided by a compliant corporate media and a Federal Government which resides in the pockets of the fossil fuel industry.

It appears that using his Glen Iris front "community group" as a base, he helps set up local opposition groups where-ever a wind farm is proposed. He even helpfully serves as a spokesperson for the local group, ie. Tarwin Valley Coastal Guardians- so that he can spew out anti-wind turbine malarkey for them.

This is a pattern following the English example where Tory politicians quote chapter-and-verse the anti-wind propaganda of the nuclear-fuelled Countryside Guardians.

However, in Australia, there is probably one major difference. Tim Le Roy is in all likliehood bankrolled by the Coal Industry who currently generously allow the Liberal Party to govern Australia.

A nuclear industry will not get up in this country because the coal industry does not want nuclear (or wind or solar) as competitors. Lucas Heights Nuclear Reactor allows our Government to keep a toe dipped in the military aspects of the nuclear game.

As we witness the largest extinction of species on Earth since the age of the dinosaurs (65 million years ago) we know this debate isn't about the orange-bellied parrot.

One solution to this problem may be the emergence of Community Wind Co-ops. There are heaps of these small-scale wind farms in Europe, specifically Germany and Denmark. 100,000 people are involved in small-scale wind farms in Germany. Maybe half of these countrys' wind energy is sourced from small scale wind farms. Denmark gets 30%of their power from wind energy which puts the lie to wind power not being feasible.

These community co-ops are completely grassroots run and controlled. Profits are returned very quickly to co-op members and some of it is poured back into positive community projects.

The first such Australian co-op is being formed in the Hepburn Shire in Victoria (Daylesford/Hepburn) by the Hepburn Renewable Energy Association. Two turbines can supply energy for the equivalent of 2500 homes. This could set a precedent for the rest of Victoria/ Australia.

Community co-ops have already caught on in Australia with the case of the Bendigo Banks which spread like wild-fire through Victoria when the major greedy banks shutdown their regional branches.

Small scale wind farms only require Local Government approval. Community wind co-ops bypass unfriendly or fickle Governments and keep energy in decentralised, grassroots control.

BTW I think that wind turbines are beautiful!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Tim Le Roy is virtually the sole spokesperson for the anti-windfarm lobby in Victoria. So far over the last three years he has been the public spokesperson for
- Coastal Guardians
- The Prom Coastal Guardians
and now the Tarwin Valley Coastal Guardians

He also variously states his address to the media as either Glen Iris or Walkerville, allowing himself to be considered a local down in Gippsland. Perhaps he has two houses? Perhaps not.

For example in this letter to the SMH in AUgust 2003 his address is Walkerville
Noisy windbags
Stephanie Peatling describes wind turbines as standing silently ("A mighty wind", Herald, August 8). However, this only happens when they don't spin.
Residents at Toora, South Gippsland, endure noise levels of more than five times the legislated limit.
It occurs in the middle of the night or whenever the wind chooses to blow, and the noise is audible from more than a kilometre away.
They're expensive, inefficient and totally reliant on subsidies to be viable.
Put not thy faith in the princes of the wind.
Tim Le Roy, Walkerville (Vic), August 8.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145872722.html

In this letter to the Bulletin in 2003 his address is Glen Iris

WINDS OF CHANGE 16.12.03
The destruction of Cape Bridgewater is made worse by the fact that wind turbines only produce at capacity 10% of the time. Their output is so variable, inefficient and unpredictable, they require constant back-up by the very power generators they seek to replace. This is not progress but subsidy abuse by an unviable industry.

http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/eddesk.nsf/All/BAF782C1D707C52ACA256E1A00133B53!open
Tim Le Roy, Glen Iris, Vic

I wonder who this man really is - who pops up in virtually every media article local or otherwise about windfarms whether they be in the Prom, Gippsland or Ballarat.
- Green Groups or environmentalists who have anything to do with the Coastal Guardians should be very concerned about who they might be getting into bed with. This mans views on wind farms are consistent - he opposes everywhere, he says they are a failed technology. He should be isolated and treated as the environmental menace he clearly is and should the Coastal Guardians.

As sure as the zionists produce effective propaganda for the coming war economy, you will be called apon by a representative of country energy and he/she will tell you for a few dollars more on your electricity bill you can switch over to "green" energy. That from all the wind farms and solar cells across the land that this current will be separated from the dirty coal burning stuff into your home with no interuption to your supply. That with your environmentally aware consumer choice and with the help of your gubberment you will be helping to save our planet and such.

Will you believe them?

A friend of mine who did the _______ ______ on a ______ ______ for a ______ company in ___ said the executives just laughed about schemes such as these.

The polar caps are already melting peoples.

Economics

* In order to compete with traditional sources of energy, wind power often receives financial incentives. In the United States, wind power receives a tax credit of 1.9 cents per kilowatt-hour produced, with a year inflationary adjustment. However, in 2004 when the U.S. production tax credit had lapsed for nine months, wind power was still a rapidly growing form of electrical generation. Another tax benefit is accelerated depreciation. Many American states also provide incentives, such as exemption from property tax, mandated purchases, and additional markets for "green credits." Countries such as Canada and Germany also provide tax credits and other incentives for wind turbine construction.

* Maintenance of wind turbines can be difficult and expensive. Repairs require a much more complicated and expensive operation than ground based generation.

* Many potential sites for wind farms are far from demand centers, requiring substantially more money to construct new transmission lines and substations.

Yield

* The goals of renewable energy development are reduction of reliance on fossil and nuclear fuels, reduction of greenhouse gas and other emissions, and establishment of more sustainable sources of energy. Some critics question wind energy's ability to significantly move society towards these goals. They point out that 25-30% annual load factor is typical for wind facilities. The intermittent and non-dispatchable nature of wind turbine power requires that "spinning reserves" are kept burning for supply security. More frequent ramping of such plants means lower efficiency and possibly greater emissions.

CO2 Emissions

* Electric power production is only part (about one to two fifths[23]) of a country's energy use, and wind power does nothing to mitigate the larger part of the effects of energy use. For example, despite aggressive installation of wind facilities in the U.K., that country's CO2 emissions continued to rise in 2002 and 2003 (Department of Trade and Industry).

* Groups such as the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change state that the desired mitigation goals can be achieved at lower cost and to a greater degree by continued improvements in general efficiency — in building, manufacturing, and transport — than by wind power. Such statements, however, do not take into account long-term costs and calculations, like drastically increasing prices for oil, gas, uranium etc. Also once an investment in a wind turbine is made, the electricity produced by that turbine is fixed for a period of 20 years.

Ecological footprint

* The construction of a large facility is also far from ecologically neutral if the location has no previous development. It requires roads, foundations, clearing of trees, and construction of power lines. The clearing of trees may be necessary since obstructions within a distance ten times the height of the turbine reduce yield dramatically. A distance of twenty times is preferred.

* While it might be true that during normal operation a windfarm does not emit any greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide or other air pollution (such as PM10 soot) it is important to consider the entire lifecycle of the wind turbine. To create a wind machine, steel, concrete, aluminium and other materials will have to be made and transported (using for example diesel). The energy, externality, and economic payback period of a wind turbine lies, depending on the energy yield, between four and six months.

* A wind farm that produces the energy equivalent of a conventional power plant would have to cover an area of approximately 200 square kilometres.

* Offshore sites have in average a higher energy yield than onshore sites.

* Another important complaint is that windmills kill birds, especially birds of prey. Siting generally takes into account known bird flight patterns, but most paths of bird migration, particularly for birds that fly by night, are unknown. Although a Danish survey in 2005 (Biology Letters 2005:336) showed that less than 1% of migrating birds passing a wind farm in Rønde, Denmark, got close to collision, the site was studied only during low-wind non-twilight conditions. A survey at Altamont Pass, California conducted by a California Energy Commission in 2004 showed that turbines killed 4,700 birds annually (1,300 of which are birds of prey). Radar studies of proposed sites in the eastern U.S. have shown that migrating songbirds fly well within the reach of large modern turbines.

* The numbers of bats killed by existing facilities has troubled even industry personnel [24]. A six-week study [25] in 2004 estimated that over 2200 bats were killed by 63 turbines at two sites in the Eastern US. This study suggests some site locations may be particularly hazardous to local bat populations, and that more research is urgently needed.

Scalability

* To meet the energy demands worldwide in the future in a sustainable way, a much larger number of turbines than today will be required. Naturally this will affect more people and wildlife habitat and requires due considerations and involvement of affected population and further stakeholders.

Aesthetics

* There is a discussion about aesthetics of wind turbines. In some places, there is resistance to the establishment of land based wind farms, owing to perceptions that they are noisy and contribute to "visual pollution." Moving the turbines offshore mitigates the problem, but offshore wind farms are more expensive to maintain and there is an increase in transmission loss due to longer distances of power lines. One solution to such objections is the early and close involvement of the local population, like recommended in the sustainability guidelines of the World Wind Energy Association http://www.wwindea.org - in the ideal case through community/citizen ownership of wind farms.

* Some residents near windmills complain of "shadow flicker," which is the alternating pattern of sun and shade caused by a rotating windmill casting a shadow over residences. Efforts are made when siting turbines to avoid this problem.

quote:
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In order to compete with traditional sources of energy, wind power often receives financial incentives
--------------------------------------

In order to compete with an array of viable, cleaner, non-centralized energy alternatives, big oil always receives financial incentives, political incentives, military incentives, and well-funded disinformation incentives.

---------------------------------------
Oil execs refuse to testify at Senate hearing
Tue Jan 31, 11:04 AM ET

Officials from six major oil companies have refused to testify this week at a Senate hearing looking into whether oil industry mergers in recent years have made gasoline more expensive at the pump.

With oil companies reporting record profits from higher energy prices, consumer groups have complained that mergers in the industry have stifled competition.

Exxon Mobil said on Monday it earned $10.7 billion in the fourth quarter of last year and $36.1 billion for all of 2005 -- bigger than the economies of 125 countries.

The Senate Judiciary Committee, which is holding the hearing on Wednesday morning, said it asked representatives from Exxon Mobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Valero Energy and the U.S. units of BP and Royal Dutch Shell to tell their side of the story.

"All declined the invitation to testify," the committee said in a statement on Monday, without providing details.

2006 Reuters Limited
***********************

A Rooftop Windmill Of Your Very Own
By Benjamin Sutherland
Newsweek International

April 24, 2006 issue - As projects to build "wind farms" of massive, electricity-generating wind turbines continue to multiply, so do the ranks of "not in my backyard" protesters. The turbines, some with blades that sweep as high as a 20-story building, are increasingly seen as unsightly and dangerous manifestations of the industrialization of the countryside. "The volume is going up higher on opposition to wind farms," says Kathy Belyeu, spokeswoman for the Washington, D.C.-based American Wind Energy Association. Although protests have generally failed to nix many farms, they frequently translate into costly delays or relocation to sites with less favorable winds.

Wind advocates thus have high hopes for less obtrusive wind technology: specifically, high-performance, nonpolluting rooftop microturbines. Generally not much bigger than a dish antenna, they hardly mar the skyline. And if wind conditions are optimal, they can satisfy a typical household's appetite for electricity. Although a microturbine produces less than one thousandth the power of a 20-story turbine, the electricity need only be piped a short distance into the house rather than sent over long distances. The microturbine can also contribute to the energy grid via a short power line that connects to utility lines running along the street. Various models of the turbines, which generally range in price from $1,000 to $8,000, have started springing up on top of houses and buildings in Europe and North America.

*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/

As the majesty of Eretz Israel swells so do the ranks of so-called "Palestinian" NIMBYs, or so the fallacious arguments go.

There is no point confusing industrial scale wind farms with small windmills like the ones promoted above. Why are you trying to deceive the public about wind energy? There is no comparison between industrial wind farms and these things. It's like comparing your propeller hat with a Boeing 757 turbo fan.

Similarly there is no point in conflating opposition to industrial scale wind farms with a pro big oil position. Why are you so desperate to misrepresent the fight against the big wind industry? Are you employed by them?

So far you have resorted to fallacious arguments # 1, 7, 8, 13, 27, 28, 32, 41

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

and probably a bunch more to boot, but ah geez, I canna be fucked.

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Welcome to National Wind Watch

National Wind Watch™, a non-profit organization, promotes awareness of the risks and related impacts of industrial wind energy development on our environment, economy, and quality-of-life.

Our energy security and need to reduce pollutants are serious issues. However, we should not be distracted by symbolic "feel-good" gestures that fail to meaningfully address these issues while doing substantial harm

We advocate an intellectually honest assessment of the benefits and costs of industrial wind development. Our objective is to be a resource of information and assistance for individuals and local groups seeking the facts about industrial wind power.

http://www.windwatch.org/

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http://www.windwatch.org/

Gee - that sounds unbiased!

quote:
--------------------------------------
In order to compete with traditional sources of energy, wind power often receives financial incentives
--------------------------------------

In order to compete with an array of viable, cleaner, non-centralized energy alternatives, big oil always receives financial incentives, political incentives, military incentives, and well-funded disinformation incentives.

---------------------------------------
Oil execs refuse to testify at Senate hearing
Tue Jan 31, 11:04 AM ET

Officials from six major oil companies have refused to testify this week at a Senate hearing looking into whether oil industry mergers in recent years have made gasoline more expensive at the pump.

With oil companies reporting record profits from higher energy prices, consumer groups have complained that mergers in the industry have stifled competition.

Exxon Mobil said on Monday it earned $10.7 billion in the fourth quarter of last year and $36.1 billion for all of 2005 -- bigger than the economies of 125 countries.

The Senate Judiciary Committee, which is holding the hearing on Wednesday morning, said it asked representatives from Exxon Mobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Valero Energy and the U.S. units of BP and Royal Dutch Shell to tell their side of the story.

"All declined the invitation to testify," the committee said in a statement on Monday, without providing details.

2006 Reuters Limited
***********************
MICROTURBINES:

A Rooftop Windmill Of Your Very Own
By Benjamin Sutherland
Newsweek International

April 24, 2006 issue - As projects to build "wind farms" of massive, electricity-generating wind turbines continue to multiply, so do the ranks of "not in my backyard" protesters. The turbines, some with blades that sweep as high as a 20-story building, are increasingly seen as unsightly and dangerous manifestations of the industrialization of the countryside. "The volume is going up higher on opposition to wind farms," says Kathy Belyeu, spokeswoman for the Washington, D.C.-based American Wind Energy Association. Although protests have generally failed to nix many farms, they frequently translate into costly delays or relocation to sites with less favorable winds.

Wind advocates thus have high hopes for less obtrusive wind technology: specifically, high-performance, nonpolluting rooftop microturbines. Generally not much bigger than a dish antenna, they hardly mar the skyline. And if wind conditions are optimal, they can satisfy a typical household's appetite for electricity. Although a microturbine produces less than one thousandth the power of a 20-story turbine, the electricity need only be piped a short distance into the house rather than sent over long distances. The microturbine can also contribute to the energy grid via a short power line that connects to utility lines running along the street. Various models of the turbines, which generally range in price from $1,000 to $8,000, have started springing up on top of houses and buildings in Europe and North America.

*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/

Google must be taking subsidies
from the monlithic
alternative energy
industry

"Kathy Belyeu, spokeswoman for the Washington, D.C.-based American Wind Energy Association"

Gee, that sounds unbiased!

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CONCLUSION

The British government and governments around the world face very tough decisions in the next two decades if they conclude that serious action is required to tackle the emission of so-called 'greenhouse' gases. A number of scientists are speculating that emissions will have to be cut by 60% (the Kyoto Protocol called for 5%) to have any effect on global warming (Costing the Earth BBC Radio 4 11 May 2000). At the same time, nuclear power stations of the existing generation will reach the end of their working lives in about 2010: they currently provide about 30% of UK electricity without emissions.

There will have to be steep rises in energy prices for consumers who, since privatisation and deregulation, have become used to ever-cheaper energy.

There will have to be draconian restrictions on private car use and the end of cheap air travel - these are the two fastest growing sources of CO2 emission.

Either a new generation of nuclear power stations has to be foisted on an unwilling public or a reliable, non-intermittent energy source has to be found to replace them and provide nearly a third of our supply: what is it to be?

Country Guardian argues that tinkering at the edges of the problem by supporting a technology like wind, which is unpredictable, intermittent and dependent on machines whose output is derisory, is a dangerous distraction and a piece of 'green' window dressing designed to allow the government to avoid the problem.

It is pointless to address difficulties caused by a profligate use of energy by creating another polluting source of energy supply. It is unacceptable that our last great landscapes should be heavily industrialised in a futile political gesture. Wilderness is a non-renewable resource crucial to the sanity of a pressurised and overcrowded world. It must not be sacrificed for a derisory and largely illusory contribution to clean energy supply when there are far more effective and cost effective strategies.

May, 2000

http://www.countryguardian.net/case.htm#vconclusion

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I see this post was hidden. I wonder why? A bit sensitive about your wanky green scam being exposed?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The following post has status hidden:

Wind farms are a scam
by Tosser Watch • Saturday April 08, 2006 at 05:39 PM

Wind farms are a "green" scam. They wouldn't be viable without scam subsidies from the government (handing over taxpayers dosh to private interests again!).

They are butt ugly haemorroids on the coastal landscape. If you want your wanky little "green" scam take it somewhere else. I don't want your ugly green delusions on my coastline. This idea that they need to be right on the coast (.00001% of the landmass) is a crock that hides the facts that wind co.'s like every other co. will screw the environment and local communities to make every last cent of profit possible.

How much greenhouse gas is expended mining, transporting and manufacturing these figments of green imagination before they even generate a volt?

It's gigantic scam. It's another pile or tapeworm hanging from the corporate carcasses arse.

If you want to do something for the environment, get real. Challenge capitalism at a fundamental level, don't destroy coastal aesthetics with your gigantic "green" placebo wank machines.

Marcus and Davey are a two man pro-windfarm band. Who do they work for?

Tossers.

The wind industry is the same shit, different pile. Suckers.

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http://tinyurl.com/rbams

oil and wind industries - peas in a pod

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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/

*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/

*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/

*** DEMAND HAS RISEN SO QUICKLY—roughly DOUBLING IN the past 12 MONTHS that companies are HAVING TROUBLE MAKING THE MINIMILLS FAST ENOUGH!!! ***

Zion-Nazis and Big OIL - peas in the same exterminazi pod.

quote:
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Rowe, MA (April 11, 2006). National Wind Watch submitted comments to the House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Energy & Water Development calling for funding to be
reDIRECTED AWAY FROM WIND energy research and development (R&D)
and instead FOCUSed ON THE DETRIMENTAL IMPACTS of commercial wind energy installations and possible mitigation techniques.
--------------------------------------------------------------

National Wind Watch™, a non-profit anti-non-distributed-viable-alternative's organization that spends money on intellectual property, such as their "non-profit" trademark!

National Wind Watch™, a non-profit organization funded by ... ... ?

funded by ... ... ... ... ... ?

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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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Cohocton Wind Watch is a community citizen organization dedicated to preserve the public safety, property values, economic viability, environmental integrity and quality of life in Cohocton, NY and in surrounding townships. Neighbors committed to public service in order to achieve a reasonable vision for a Finger Lakes region worthy of future generations.

Concerned Citizens are urged to immediately express their opposition and reservations regarding the Cohocton Wind Power Project.

The more you know the greater your outrage!...

What is all the fuss about, you ask? Growing corn, milking cows and digging potatoes may not seem too exciting, but when the manure of absentee corporate carpetbaggers meets the cronyism of agribusiness avarice, the general public suffers the costs of a disastrous financial and environmental impact.

http://batr.net/cohoctonwindwatch/2006/05/public-health-and-safety-placed-at.html

WHAT WE WANT....

http://prattsburgh.org/html/home_what.htm

http://www.saveupstateny.com/he/

Utilitarianism of a disease to cure a disease when lifestyle is the cause....but you, you, you, don't you worry about that...

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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
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What part of :"Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough" you miss? Because I'll repeat for you.

And what part of WindWatch (trade mark - intellectual property) "funded by who?" did you miss?

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SPLUTTER CHOKE gasper gasp gaspovitch Rabbi Smokescreen

gibber splutter choke pschytzoid feakshow repetitive nonsense

I'm a mad man , mad as a cut snake

woo hooo

looney looney boing boing pting

hello john got a new motor?

like my technique?

I'm a raving nut, that's what I am

what are you?

no don't talk sense or I'll go la lal lalla la lla I can't hear you I'm looney i'm a looney i'm a looney I'm not oner to repeat myself repeat myself repeat myself

I'm on mono I can't talk now I'm going absolutely bonkers

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this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
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this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that
this is how we debate because I'm right and you are wrong and nothing you say or I hear will change that

The previous post represents the method by which a zion-nazi-maggot-cockroach - an anonyomus subhuman piece of shit, a deactivist member of the unaccountable collective of funded-maggots --- a particularly stinky indentity-thieving maggot who thinks WindWatch (Trade Mark!) is an "explanation" for something --- responded to the following:

******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************

******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************

******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************
******************************************
*** Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough. ***
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12321430/site/newsweek/from/ET/
******************************************

What part of :"Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough" you miss? Because I'll repeat for you.

And what part of WindWatch (trade mark - intellectual property) "funded by who?" did you miss?

Alternative energy is supplimental.

The world will always need more power and no one will want to use less.

Windmills and solar panels can not reduce the current co2 created through industry transport and heating, instead they will just suppliment an enormous demand.

In the future the technology may replace a power station, but where we need one power station today we will need two in the future.

Geo thermal might do it, but then howards coal and minning sector supporters will not suppliment howards campaign.

We can argue for better options but there are reasons why windmills will never replace burning.

Its bang for your buck and centralized control.

What part of :"Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough" did you miss? Because I'll repeat for you.

And what part of WindWatch (trade mark - intellectual property) "funded by who?" did you miss?

I'll also repeat that question ad nauseum until a good reason why such dribble should be tolerated has been provided.

"funded by who?"

Wind Watch

Our History

In May 2005, citizens from ten states representing several regions of the country met to share their concerns about the risks and related impacts of industrial wind power. National Wind Watch emerged from this conference with a mandate and mission to provide the facts about industrial wind power to the public at-large.

Welcome to National Wind Watch

National Wind Watch™, a non-profit organization, promotes awareness of the risks and related impacts of industrial wind energy development on our environment, economy, and quality-of-life.

Our energy security and need to reduce pollutants are serious issues. However, we should not be distracted by symbolic "feel-good" gestures that fail to meaningfully address these issues while doing substantial harm

We advocate an intellectually honest assessment of the benefits and costs of industrial wind development. Our objective is to be a resource of information and assistance for individuals and local groups seeking the facts about industrial wind power.

"Wind Watch" is a trademark of National Wind Watch, Inc.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Are you saying people don't have a right to organise against wind power because windpower suits YOUR agenda?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Ranting lunatic***What part of :"Demand has risen so quickly—roughly doubling in the past 12 months—that companies are having trouble making the minimills fast enough" did you miss? Because I'll repeat for you.***

Oh I understand that, but what happens when the wind doesn't blow? Sometime we go for days or weeks without significant winds. What will you do then? Wind them by hand? Attach a drive belt to a petrol powered generator?

What will happen in cities? Will every building be bristling with minimills? You think these minimills will be a solution to industrial scale power generation? They won't even generate as much power as your solar powered propeller hat.

You are an idiot. A moron. A fool.

Stop wasting time.

You obviously are experiencing some severe mental problems or have been sent to disrupt every topic with the mad ravings of a ranting lunatic.

Go away.

I see you've met Leon.

You cannot win with him, he represents the controlling influence of the right wing, he will not give in or admit when wrong, for the same reason you cannot hope that things will change .

Windmills have been around for centuries, and have been generating power for 100 years since the dynamo was given a fan stuck on a pole and put in the wind.

Such advanced technology?, gee we 21st century humans are brilliant.

All other electrical generation is a variation on steam power, even nuke.

Basically the problem stems from an increased in demand pushed to recrord highs. If demand levelled out in 1920 we could use windmills now to meet the demand, but not now.

Take a look at what has happened since.

minimills - what IS the environmental; impact?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?

"Wind Watch" is a trademark of National Wind Watch, Inc. - why do they want to own the words, Wind+Watch? Since the activity applies to watching a wind industry that is actually providing CLEAN ALTERNATIVES FOR ELECTRICICTY PRODUCTION (note the absence of cars in that wind equation, hence any discussion of cars here is intentional slime - which is quite a welcome STRATEGY around here - slime is editorial policy)

Why is APOLCOLYPSE the only KOSHER message at Zion-Nazi Media?

What did the LATIMES mean by "increasing the paranoia" in regards to COINTELPRO activities?

What is the average power output of a minimill?

Who funds "windwatch"?
Why take out intellectual property rights on those two combined english words?

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET ENGLISH WORDS TRADEMARKED, FUCKER?

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS?
DID YOU EVER WORK IN A PATENT OFFICE?

Does a story that says "WindWatch" (TRADEMARKED, FUCKER) was "setup by concerned citizens" tell you where they get there funding from?

Can an oil company executive be a concerned citizen?

What is a minimill for?
How much has the efficiency of the mimimill increased since its inception?

What is better for the environment:
a) a minimill on your house
b) a coal-fired power station in Yallourn

"Can an oil company executive be a concerned citizen?"

Why not? But can a concerned citizen not be an oil company executive? Well fucker?

minimills - what IS the environmental; impact?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?

"Wind Watch" is a trademark of National Wind Watch, Inc. - why do they want to own the words, Wind+Watch? Since the activity applies to watching a wind industry that is actually providing CLEAN ALTERNATIVES FOR ELECTRICICTY PRODUCTION (note the absence of cars in that wind equation, hence any discussion of cars here is intentional slime - which is quite a welcome STRATEGY around here - slime is editorial policy)

Why is APOLCOLYPSE the only KOSHER message at Zion-Nazi Media?

What did the LATIMES mean by "increasing the paranoia" in regards to COINTELPRO activities?

What is the average power output of a minimill?

Who funds "windwatch"?
Why take out intellectual property rights on those two combined english words?

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET ENGLISH WORDS TRADEMARKED, FUCKER?

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS?
DID YOU EVER WORK IN A PATENT OFFICE? (I did, btw!)

Does a story that says "WindWatch" (TRADEMARKED, FUCKER) was "setup by concerned citizens" tell you where they get there funding from?

Can an oil company executive be a concerned citizen?

What is a minimill for?
How much has the efficiency of the mimimill increased since its inception?

What is better for the environment:
a) a minimill on your house ?
b) a coal-fired power station in Yallourn ?

Answer ALL the questions next time...

"Answer ALL the questions next time..."

I've got a better idea. You can go and fuck yourself you twisted little nazoid jerkoff.

minimills - what IS the environmental; impact?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?

"Wind Watch" is a trademark of National Wind Watch, Inc. - why do they want to own the words, Wind+Watch? Since the associated TM activity applies to watching a wind industry that is actually providing CLEAN ALTERNATIVES FOR ELECTRICICTY PRODUCTION (note the absence of cars in that wind equation, hence any discussion of cars here is intentional slime - which is quite a welcome STRATEGY around here - slime is editorial policy) does this intellectual property claim strike you as fair?

Why is APOCALYPSE the only KOSHER message at Zion-Nazi Media?

What did the LATIMES mean by "increasing the paranoia" in regards to COINTELPRO activities?

What is the average power output of a minimill?

Who funds "windwatch"?
Why take out intellectual property rights on those two combined english words?

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET ENGLISH WORDS TRADEMARKED, FUCKER?

ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS?
DID YOU EVER WORK IN A PATENT OFFICE?

Does a story that says "WindWatch" (TRADEMARKED, FUCKER) was "setup by concerned citizens" tell you where they get there funding from?

Can an oil company executive be a concerned citizen?

What is a minimill for?
How much has the efficiency of the mimimill increased since its inception?

What is better for the environment:
a) a minimill on your house ?
b) a coal-fired power station in Yallourn ?

Any attempt to not answer the questions will naturally incur a repeat.

Any message you may think you have is lost in your delusional ranting.

If you represent the logic behind the wind industry it will have as much value to civilisation as your propeller hat stands a chance of being a perennial fashion accessory.

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth exists not only for those of us who currently live on it, but also for our descendants. We must live in a way that will ensure a future for our children and grandchildren. It is, therefore, our duty to protect our valuable environment so that all living creatures can continue to live on this planet forever.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Not Melbourne Indymedia policy, this. No, it is not.

Not Arab-hating, bomb them and let-jehovah sort it out policy, and everyone else is doomed in the apocalypse anyway, and it's all so very thrilling and intractable - not that kind of policy - oh no...

Sorry for that, collective.

Sorry, pr - marx marx trotsky marx lenin marx spew shit spew marx - I'm so sorry it's not part of your assassinazi policy, mate.

Sorry, Adam, Andy, Lachlan and Nigel, and "nazihunter" and Chris Parsons and Jay White and "lefty" - it is not part of your collective pack-hunting policy either.

So whose policy is it?

Well you see....before I ran my own quite successful business (with clients such as Australian Defense Industries, the Naval and Military Club, the Athaneum Club, Melbourne Zoos, VicHealth - to name but a few) and before I was selling and programming and installing and maintaining telephone systems and voicemail as a wageslave, but a little after I worked for a Patent Attorney, I used to work for a multi-national corporation. It was their policy.

>>> how the fuck does this industrial mindfuck contribute to the ecology of the earth moron?

You are talking about the anti-wind energy industry, yes?

You are talking about the industry of the person who posted the anti-wind energy thread which was built on pure disinformation - yes?

You are talking about the collectiv fraud who keeps invoking a trademark, as if doing so somehow explains why windfarms and minimills are a bad idea - YES?

You are here to provide that much asked for explanation as to why we should NOT be PROMOTING AND SUPPORTING THE USE OF WIND GENERTAED ELECTRICITY AT EACH AND EVERY OPPORTUNITY POSSIBLE?
IS THAT RIGHT - is THAT why you are here?

You are here to defend the collective nazi POLICY in which a trademark repeated ad nauseum is a kosher way of pissing all over the facts about a viable energy? - is that not just the only reason you are here?

LOl THERE - I think it is!

Yes I think we get your point.

You have been sucker punched by another industrialist confidence trick.

You think you're selling quirky little free energy propeller hats but the reality is the industrial mindfuck pictured above.

You are a card carrying stooge another means of fucking over the last remnants of wild earth.

minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - what IS the environmental impact?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?
minimills - has demand increased, and by how much?

"Wind Watch" is a trademark of National Wind Watch, Inc. - why do they want to own the words, Wind+Watch? Since the associated TM activity applies to watching a wind industry that is actually providing CLEAN ALTERNATIVES FOR ELECTRICICTY PRODUCTION (note the absence of cars in that wind equation, hence any discussion of cars here is intentional slime - which is quite a welcome STRATEGY around here - slime is editorial policy) does this intellectual property claim strike you as fair?

Why is APOCALYPSE the only KOSHER message at Zion-Nazi Media?
Why is it kosher AT ALL?

Why is PISSING ON VIABLE ALTERNATIVES KOSHER, and apparently CODIFIED?

WHY IS FREE MAGICAL ENERGY KOSHER?

WHY IS IT WRONG TO PROMOTE VIABLE ALTERNATIVES?
WHY IS IT KOSHER TO INVOKE TRADEMARKS AND DEFAMATION AND HATE AND TO PISS ALL OVER ANYONE WHO DARES TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF VIABLE ALTERNATIVES?

WHY IS MAGICAL FREE ENERGY SAFE FOR PROMOTION, AND SAFE FROM ATTACK DOGS?

WHYA RE CLEAN ALTERNATIVES SEEN AS THREATENING TO THE CONTENT ALGORITHM FOR THIS WEBSITE?

What did the LATIMES mean by "increasing the paranoia" in regards to COINTELPRO activities?

What is the average power output of a minimill?
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE POWER OUTPUT OF A MINIMILL?
What is the average power output of a minimill?
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE POWER OUTPUT OF A MINIMILL?
What is the average power output of a minimill?
WHAT IS THE AVERAGE POWER OUTPUT OF A MINIMILL?

Who funds "windwatch"?
Who funds "windwatch"?
NAME THE INDIVIDUALS who fund "windwatch"
NAME THE INDIVIDUALS who fund "windwatch"
NAME THE INDIVIDUALS who fund "windwatch"
NAME THE INDIVIDUALS who fund "windwatch"
Why take out intellectual property rights on those two combined english words?

Does a story that says "WindWatch" (TRADEMARKED, FUCKER) was "setup by concerned citizens" tell you where they get the funding from?

Can an oil company executive be a "concerned citizen"?

What is a minimill for?
How much has the efficiency of the mimimill increased since its inception?

What is better for the environment:
a) a minimill on your house ?
b) a coal-fired power station in Yallourn ?

Any attempt to not answer the questions will incur a repeat.

Why don't you put a minmill on your hat and run around really, really fast when there is no wind blowing.

That'll solve problems with continuity of supply won't it?

It doesn't matter if the technology is essentially a failure, any investment is taxpayer subsidised and any losses are offset against income (that would be suckers investment).

What a racket! What a scam! What a perfect con to sucker would-be greenies!