Cuba, Democratic or Sham : Melbourne Indymedia

I came across a particular site which defends Cuba, on it they had this article which is the clearest description i could find on how the electoral process works in Cuba.

I also found Cuba's constitution in english

The constitution
http://64.21.33.164/ref/dis/const_92_e.htm

These parts are the most relevant to what i have to say

ARTICLE 5. The Communist Party of Cuba, a follower of Martí’s ideas and of Marxism-Leninism, and the organized vanguard of the Cuban nation, is the highest leading force of society and of the state, which organizes and guides the common effort toward the goals of the construction of socialism and the progress toward a communist society,

ARTICLE 6. The Young Communist League, the organization of Cuba’s vanguard youth, has the recognition and encouragement of the state in its main duty of promoting the active participation of young people in the tasks of building socialism and adequately preparing the youth to be conscientious citizens capable of assuming ever greater responsibilities for the benefit of our society.

ARTICLE 16. The state organizes, directs and controls the economic life of the nation according to a plan that guarantees the programmed development of the country, with the purpose of strengthening the socialist system, of increasingly satisfying the material and cultural needs of society and of citizens, of promoting the flourishing of human beings and their integrity, and of serving the progress and security of the country.

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Only communist party ideology is allowed, the communist party doesn't have to stand because the assembly is the communist party...

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http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/democracy.htm

electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates. Instead the candidates are nominated by grass roots assemblies and by electoral commissions comprising representatives of all the mass organisations.
The municipal elections are the cornerstone of Cuba's political structure. They comprise delegates who have great authority amongst the local population and who are elected for reasons of known integrity, intelligence, hard work and honesty.

The elections to the provincial and national assemblies (Cuba's regional and national parliaments) follow a different procedure. For deputies to the national assembly the nominating process involves proposals from the municipal councils.

In addition to receiving nominations from different organisations and institutions, the candidacy commissions carry out an exhaustive process of consultation before drawing up a final slate. In the February 1993 elections they consulted more than 1.5 million people and established a pool of between 60 and 70 thousand potential candidates before narrowing it down to 589.

The nominating process and the huge participation in the last election clearly show that the deputies to Cuba's parliament enjoy massive public support.
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The article is clearly biased and make some assumptions about Cubans.

Basically it reads, people are consulted, but don't have a direct vote.
The elections at the end are a sham because the number of candidates match the number of seats, and as for the mass organisations most if not all of them are communist or communist influenced anyway, so if i was to stand on a platform of anti communism pro Anarchism i wouldn't get past the commission and more than likely find myself in jail...

It gives the feeling that people can participate but in reality its all sham.

I consider democracy to be where us as individuals and as a whole get to choose who represents us while also participating in the decision making process as well,
Which would if i had my way would be like what we have
today with the added benefit of having something similar to a AGM that companies have for stockholders.
Ie people have representatives that do most of the day to day running and once every three/six months/12months meetings are held to discuss and vote on the direction our representatives should take ect

But what i don't consider democracy is what happens in Cuba, i prefer to have a direct vote in who i choose not some committee that's being influenced by some ideology or groups that i don't agree with.

Considering Castro is always chosen with his brother next in line, it doesn't take much imagination to see the whole system is nothing more than a sham...

All is not lost for this brilliant witty and incisive article exposes Marxism - Leninism for a counter revolutionary scam AND ' Regular' as ignorant for suggesting anarchists run for elections.* The Trotskyists must have sensed this devastating expose coming for they've removed the fluttering Cubano flag from their GLW website. Gracias ' Regular'...' Hasta la Victoria Siempre!"

* Okay I know Dr Joe is with the Informal Party but thats just the exception that proves the rule.

Regular: Just to explain the relationship between the communist party and the government...

The Communist Party does NOT stand or nominate for elections. The closest analogy to it's role that I can see is a little like the church or pressure groups, business groups etc in some other countries.

That is actually what is meant by what is written in the constitution. It doesn't produce laws etc and certainly doesn't run in elections (most members of government at all levels are actually not CP members now days) but leads the country through propaganda etc.

People are nominated to join the CP by workplaces, schools, associations etc (the CP does not nominate people to join itself).

I can see many possible criticisms of this system. But it is no less democratic than any western country. And the elections (probably more so local elections than national ones) are genuinely democratic in most regions. Also the process and discussion has been getting more and more open since the late 80s.

In essence - while the west gets more authoritarian - Cuba is democratising and opening up.

Maybe you don't support socialism. But whether you like it or not most Cubans still do.

DemocRATizing and opening up - I hear they have perma-culture tobacco and sugar now!

Innovating psychiatric diagnosis and treatments, the mighty Gitmo base, Internet access is spreading (IMCs anyday now! ), Capital punishment for wicked capitalists...clearly this is socialism as preached and practised by Marxists going back to Lenin and Trotsky.

Cant wait till David gets back from his crazy holiday - he's getting more offers than me by the sound of it!

" Free speech may be tersely defined as ...no opinion a crime - no opinion a law."

Without free speech Cuban democracy is a sham, the only one seen making four hour speechs is the Jackanapes Caudillo. Most workers and peasants around the world know Marxist-Leninists despise ' bourgeois' freedom of speech so making them sham democratic socialists and counter revolutionaries.

The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results each time as Marxist- Leninists/ state capitalists do.State socialism and crony capitalism are obviously the worst of both worlds. Just look around...

http://www.cubanet.org/ref/dis/11020101.htm

"It's no good taking action after the crime," Authoritarian socialist, Mr. Mahathir said. "We have to act in anticipation, and not in the usual manner, because having to find proof of a crime which has not yet been committed is difficult."

http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAMR250032004

And as tobacco industry studies have implied, health risk based population reduction can sometimes have beneficial effects on a nation's health care and retirement expenses.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=3677

"In any country there must be people who have to die. They are the sacrifices any nation has to make to achieve law & order."
-- Idi Amin Dada

Obesity has reached EPIDEMIC proportions globally, with more than 1 billion adults overweight - at least 300 million of them clinically obese - and is a major contributor to the global burden of chronic disease and disability.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=3677

Increased consumption of more energy-dense, nutrient-poor foods with high levels of SUGAR and saturated fats, combined with reduced physical activity, has led to obesity rates that have risen three-fold or more since 1980 in some areas of North America, the UK, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, the Pacific Islands, Australasia and China, claims the UN-backed World Health Organisation (WHO

http://www.rsf.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=47

http://www.guantanamo.com/

inexplicably, the "Cuban Revolution" (as "leftists" still like
to call Castro-fascism) manages to obtain hypocritical "critical support". We see vast sectors of the "left" standing against the death penalty, against military service, against the media censorship, against the fabricated trials of social activists on euphemistic charges of "terrorism"; we see how they stand against the rule of silence that forbids free radio channels, how they oppose nuclear energy, how they denounce the spying by the repressive forces of their own States but we also see how, notwithstanding all this, they remain willing to justify all these wrongdoings, all this infamy, even going so far as to support it and praise it in name of overriding anti-imperialism.

"Critical support" has been and is now a formula for foreign consumption, not for use here. It is based on a strictly totalitarian double-minded way of thinking - "with the revolution, against imperialism". Those who do not support us are supporting Yankee imperialism and are therefore labelled reactionaries. This kind of thinking is the same that Hitler, Mussolini and Franco defended.

Sure, Castro-fascist propaganda on a world level has repeated this formula with all the energy of its dollars and its invitations for free holidays in Cuba, and there have always been plenty of second-rat writers willing to disguise the Cuban reality with sermons and parables. This results in helping to maintain the ignominious conditions on an Island which is physically and economically devastated, whose citizens defy all danger just to manage to escape and where, ironically, funerals are free. A terrible despotism oppresses our people and when someone denounces the crime, they are accused of being on the imperialist payroll. But the reality is self-evident, one that any curious traveller can witness as long as he does not reproduce the siren song.

Within the "international anarchist movement", the positions concerning the Castro regime are no longer the same as in the past, when some anarchist sectors remained silent over Castro's crimes against our comrades.

Today, in fact, the loud voice of condemnation can be heard from our anarchist comrades wherever they are against the Castro-fascist dictatorship. We also see that the greatest defenders of the tyranny are less and less a part of the real movement of the exploited, less involved in the struggle to resist against capital, less present on the barricades of direct confrontation, less involved among the women and men who struggle in a horizontal, autonomous way for the self-management of the factories, the community, the universities, the neighbourhoods and our lives. On the contrary, the defenders of the Castro regime can be found in the ranks of the reformists, of social democracy, among the defenders of the "leftist" vote, Lula’s PT members, among Kirchner sympathizers, in the Bolivarian bureaucracy of Hugo Chávez, among the yellow PRI-ists of the PRD [in Mexico - ndt],
among the opportunists of the Salinist PT, among the ideologues of Christian Democracy, among a whole range of bureaucratic left-wing organisations extending from parasitic unions and State-client organizations, to fossil student federations and popular fronts made up of labels. And not only in these - it can be found in the capitalist groups, either in Europe or Latin America, who invest in the Island, preparing us to endure "capitalism with a human face", while repressing self-managed struggles wherever they arise on the planet. Nowadays, the Cuban regime with all its boasted progress is not even an example for those who support it!

Today, Cuba is a huge farm in the hands of a cruel, bloodthirsty owner who does not hesitate to escalate repression in order to continue ruling. Cuba lacks any kind of freedom, individual or collective.

http://www.ainfos.ca/en/ainfos14673.html

Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

-- Mikhail Bakunin

Revolutionary: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint

(the GLW does not respond)

R: 'Ello, Stalinist?

GLW: What do you mean 'Stalinist'?

R: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

GLW: We don't have time for your contribution, sorry.

R: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this ideology what I embraced not half an hour ago at this very conference call.

GLW: Oh yes, the, uh, the Russian style Cuban Bolshevik... What's, uh... wrong with it?

R: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. Its dead, that's what's wrong with it!

GLW: No, no, its, uh, . . . its resting.

R: Look, matey, I know a dead ideology when I see one, I'm looking at one right now.

GLW: No no, its not dead, its resting! Remarkable ideology the Cubist Russian Bolshevik, idn'it, ay? Beautiful rhetoric.

R: The rhetoric don't enter into it. It's stone dead.

GLW: Nononononono, no, no, its resting!

R: All right then, if its resting, I'll wake it up!
(shouting at the meeting)
'Ello Mister Bolshevik! Do you know that Lenin and Trotsky advocated party dictatorship....

(GLW ignores point)
GLW: There, we replied to you.

R: No you didn't, that was you ignoring what I said.

GLW: We never!

R: Yes, you did!

GLW: We never, ever ignore anything...

R: (making the same point repeatedly)
Lenin and Trotsky eliminated workers democracy in the army and in the workplace. The Bolsheviks disbanded soviets with non-Bolshevik majorities. All before the start of the Civil War. Lenin and Trotsky both advocated party dictatorship. Moreover, they explicitly argued for it and against the idea of class dictatorship. This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
(raises points at meeting and watches them get ignored).
R: Now that's what I call a dead ideology.

GLW: No, no.... No, it was stunned by the counter-revolution!

R: STUNNED?!?

GLW: Yeah, counter-revolution stunned it, just as it was about to implement socialism, workers' power and democracy! The Russian Bolshevik stuns easily, comrade.

R: Um . . . now look ... now look mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. This ideology is definitely deceased and when I embraced it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of freedom and democracy in 1921 was due to it being tired and shagged out following a prolonged civil war, yet these events occurred before it started.

GLW: Well, its... its, ah ... probably pining for 1917.

R: PININ' for 1917!?!?!?! What kind of talk is that? Look, why did it overthrow soviet democracy the moment it got rejected in the soviet elections in spring 1918? Why did it establish the CHEKA in 1917? Why did it abolish by decree elected soldier committees in March 1918?
Why did it re-introduce the death penalty in Febuary 1918? Why did it reject workers' self-management by factory committees and advocate one-man management with dictatorial powers in the spring of 1918?
Why did it gun down anarchists in the streets of Moscow in April 1918?

GLW: The Russian Bolshevik prefers centralised power! Only that is true democracy-local elections, soldier councils and factory committees don't matter when you have a central government elected by the soviets. Remarkable ideology, id'nit, squire? Lovely rhetoric!

R: Look, I took the liberty of examining that ideology when I got home, and I discovered that the only reason that it was still in power in 1921 was that it had imposed a one party dictatorship, repressed all worker dissent with RED TERROR, crushed waves of strikes and protests under " war communism', and, finally, suppressed the Kronstadt revolt (which was demanding free soviet elections). Moreover, it justified party dictatorship and claimed it had to be used in every revolution.
(pause)

GLW: Well, o'course it had to do that! If it hadn't crushed those popular movements then the Whites would have won and no more soviet power. Give it another chance and VOOM! Socialism!

R: VOOM!?! Mate, this ideology wouldn't go "voom" if you put four million volts through it! Soviet Power without soviet elections? Socialism without workers management of production? Secret Police? It is "childish nonsense" to draw a distinction between dictatorship by the party and by the class? (Lenin) The "dictatorship of the proletariat is at the same time the dictatorship of the Communist Party."? (Zinoviev) The "revolutionary dictatorship of a proletarian party" is "an objective necessity"? (Trotsky) Its bleeding demised!

GLW: No no, its pining!

R: Its not pining! Its passed on! This ideology is dead! It has long ceased to be revolutionary (if it ever was)! Its expired and become a dictatorship! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! Its analytical processes are now history! It shuffled away from the socialist movement, imposed party dictatorship, and justified it time and time again! This is an ex-socialist theory!

GLW: Well, I had better ignore what you are saying and keep repeating the dogma.
(he takes a quick peek to the Central Committee)
GLW: Sorry comrade, I've checked and your three minutes are up and we're right out of time.

R: I see. I see, I get the picture.

GLW: Fancy a copy of Socialist Green Left Weekly?
(pause)

R: Pray, does it talk about anarchism, the real socialism from below?

GLW: Nnnnot really.

R: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?

Here's an idea!
by The Pr Stalking Troll Saturday August 14, 2004 at 10:45 AM

Maybe Green Left Weekly should publish some articles by Pr in support of censorship, CIA death squads and nuclear holocaust.

"....The Communist Party does NOT stand or nominate for elections....."

I just beggars belief that anyone could suggest the Communist Party in Cuba has anything other than the pre-eminent, indeed exclusively dominant role in directing the political life of that state.

One may as well state that the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "did not stand or nominate for elections."

To suggest that the Central Committee of the Communist Party in Cuba does not exercise a virtual monopoly of influence of the political and economic direction of the state - and a predominant role in Cuban society - is "double think" in the most chilling Orwellian sense.

The Communist party remains the ONLY legal political party in Cuba.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cuban-Communist-Party

If you controld the Communist Party of Cuba - you control Cuba.

The true test of a democracy is whether it is prepared to tolerate political groupings that the ruling party would wish to oppose.

To the extent that a political society will tolerate free and open dissent, it is democratic.

A state that specifically EXCLUDES opposition political groupings within its domain simply cannot be considered democratic in any sense, no matter how much semantic casuistry is applied to the term "democratic".

One of the Western world's oldest, longest running Communist Party organisations, established in 1919, is in the United States

http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/511/#question6

http://www.cpusa.org/

There is simply NO prospect of any non-Socialist, let alone expressly anti-Communist party, being tolerated even for a minute in Fidel Castro's Cuban junta.

You may think Cuban Communism is just dandy - but puh-lease - don't insult everyone's intelligence by salling it democratic.

The Cuban Communist party has even officially dropped the pretense of being a party of the "people", having since its 1991 Congress redefined the party as "the party of the Cuban nation" .

Cuba today is a one party fascist military dictatorship with a self appointed, gerontocratic ruler whose brother controls the secret police.

Face it, gutless.

The time is coming when you'll simply have to stop slurping on Fidel's withered old cock, because pretty soon it's going to fall off.

How will you disgusting toadies explain yourselves then?

a little known fact. That the real power lies in the electoral college

Electoral College Problems

Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution mandates that the President be elected by means of an electoral college. Each state is allowed a certain number of "electors" (the state's number of Representatives plus its Senators), who then vote for the President. The electors vote based on the state's distribution of the popular vote. Most state constitutions award votes on a winner-take-all basis. For instance, if two-thirds of a state's public vote for a Democrat and the other third votes for a Republican, and the state has 6 electoral votes, then all 6 of that state's votes go to the Democratic candidate.

Similarly, U.S. Senatorial elections were originally conducted exclusively by state legislators. The public directly elected the state legislators, who then directly elected that state's Senators.

The electoral college was initially conceived as an integral part of the U.S. Constitution. Its intentions were to resolve inter-state disputes about power based on geographical and regional differences. In addition, however, it was blatantly distrustful and alarmingly paternalistic towards the American populace, not to mention being flat-out undemocratic. The electoral college (and Constitutional provisions which prevented direct Senatorial elections), at least in part, was aimed at preventing the general public from having any direct power in Presidential or Senatorial elections, for fear of the "uneducated masses" having any direct political power. The public merely elected delegates to the electoral college, who then proceeded to actually elect the President or Senators.

The Constitution has been amended to allow for the direct elections of Senators. But, to this day, American elections are not truly democratic, for there are no direct Presidential elections.

The electoral college's continued existence has and will continue to have numerous detrimental effects on American politics and government. The first and foremost problem is that it deprives American citizens of a full voice in choosing their President. Because many state constitutions award electoral votes on a winner-take-all basis, all individual votes become meaningless: each state gets a certain number of electoral votes, but for the Presidential election itself, individual votes are not even tallied.

In addition, each vote is not counted equally. The electoral college votes that each state is allocated are based on its number of Represenatives plus Senators. But, since each state, regardless of its size, has two Senators and at least one Representative, the vote of citizens from smaller states (in terms of population) is worth substantially more than somebody's vote from a larger state.

These consequences reach far beyond simple "fairness" issues. Too many times in American history, the electoral college has single-handedly defeated the purpose of democracy in this country. Since the first presidential election, there have been more than a dozen instances in which somebody has been elected President without a majority of votes, and, in a handful of particularly awful moments, the official winner in the electoral college's election was actually defeated in the popular election by another candidate. (See some of the major electoral college disasters)

Additionally, the electoral college acts as a major stumbling block for third party candidates. Approximately 20 "third" parties of varying prominence exist in the U.S., most of which the vast majority of Americans probably have not even heard. Not too impressive a showing for the country that prides herself on an extremely diverse and participatory political culture.

None of these parties have ever seriously contended with Republicans or Democrats in Presidential elections. In fact, even the most serious third party contender in recent memory has not been particularly serious. In 1992 a Reform Party candidate, Texas billionaire Ross Perot, won nearly 12% of the popular vote. But the percentage of votes that he won in "official" tallies? Zero. For despite his significant victories in the popular vote, he failed to win a majority of a state and thus was not awarded a single electoral vote.

The electoral college has other, more indirect, impacts on the fate of third party candidates. Due to their repeated (and inevitable, under the current system) defeats, any momentum is quickly lost, for few will vote for a party that never wins. Not surprisingly, then, in the 1996 Presidential elections, Perot's popular vote winnings were cut approximately in half.

But, even in principle, the electoral college is not worth saving. Americans feel such euphoric pride for their "democracy" for a reason. It represents much that we value in government and, to a degree, in life -- freedom, control over our future, and concern with the fate of others. The electoral college violates what should be considered a fundamental right (at least in this country): the right to self-governance, a right on which this nation is built.

The public and its attitudes have changed since the framing of the Constitution. The American "democracy" has existed for over 200 years, and citizens are ready, as they have been for decades, if not centuries, to finally control their own country. Enough is enough!

http://www.geocities.com/dave_enrich/ctd/college.html

form of government in which the citizens share the power.

a democratic country has a government which has been freely elected by the people. Adults vote at an election for the government of their choice

Form of government in which the people rule, either by directly voting on issues (direct democracy), or indirectly through electing representative to decide issues (representative democracy).

(US democracy, the type, is not direct)

a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them
(YES, but WHICH body of citizens)

Heres a doozy:

'Literally, the term means power of the people (combining the Greek words demos, meaning "the people," and kratien, meaning "to rule"). It is usually used to describe a political system where the legitimacy of exercising power stems from the consent of the people. Accordingly, a democratic polity is often identified by the existence of constitutional government, where the power of the leaders is checked and restrained; representative institutions based on free elections, which provide a procedural framework for the delegation of power by the people; competitive parties, in which the ruling majority respects and guarantees the rights of minrities; and civil liberties, such as freedoms of speech, press, association, and religion.

('where the power of the leaders is checked and restrained'....is this true nowadays? Not in the US)

A form of government that represents the people
(Problem here is that 'the people' does not exit as a uniform body)

etc
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:democracy

Allthough dishonest and dispicable in all other respects you have to give that Grinch spinster some credit for sizing up Left wing scum in no uncertain terms. I hope he doesn't get swollen poison neck glands from such a compliment from lille ol me.

Brian we are talking about CUBA old darling, not some Forth Reich to the north of CUBA. CUBA sunshine CUBA.

"...Pr in support of censorship, CIA death squads and nuclear holocaust..."

On Troll Prime maybe...on Earth I have been known to support hiding certain articles - as if I or any other fucking imbecile could censor the web!

You would have to be a total fruitbat like Bob Brown to think that!

' CIA death squads? "

Maybe if I could just quote JFK at this point...

' I don't like Communists,' Kerry said. ' In fact, I hate them.'

And...

It's a damn shame the CIA cant tell a communist from a hole in the ground but with new improved death lists maybe they will do better next time. We live in hope.

That ' Nuclear holocaust' should read ' Nuclear DETERRENT " probably just a typo right sicko?

Have a nice day. ( it's snowing up here! )

No Pr, killing a few hundred thousand people no longer qualifies as "deterrant". It is holocaust.

As for "Maybe if I could just quote JFK at this point...".. Why would you quote the president most responsible for the VIetnam war?

As for censoring the web... No even you aren't as silly as Bob. But you have made a few calls for censoring MIM (but NOT when I am being stalked by neo-nazi "Bill" of the ARP - that is obviously acceptible in your books).

But aside from those points. I have already apologised for yesterdays trolling spree. Black Friday brings out the Troll in me and so do the anti-imigrationists here. BUt incase you missed it. I apologise again.

Troll: As you know I'm no particular fan of Senator Brown but I think you overstated his silliness in your above post.

to everyone else on this thread except Brian (and Playa Giron, of course!): You are all right wing scumwads. regardless of whether your inabillity to understand the democratic nature of the Cuban revolution is deliberate or due to ignorance, you are right wing scumwads. try spouting your shit at a Venezuelan barrio-dweller. The Cuban advisors that your political cothinkers in the Venezuelan opposition are so upset about are mostly doctors working in communities that were previously denied access to medical services. You all disgust me.

by the way pr, if you respond to my calling you a right wing scumwad by crapping on about some lame parody of political theory called post-left anarchism, all that proves is that you are as pretentious and stupid as you are right wing. stick to inarticulate bullying and threats of violence: its the only time you ever sound sincere or convincing.

In numerous declarations, top United Status officials have
clearly stated their goal is to topple the Cuban Revolution and bring about a change in the island’s social system.

Such public confessions are almost always accompanied by the announcement of new sanctions designed to strengthen the blockade and strangle the country economically. They also include the implicit possibility of using military might toachieve their aims.

When asked several months ago about using the military option against Cuba, Secretary of State Colin Powell responded by saying “not now,” leaving open the door to a future invasion.

That being the case, the Cuban government, aware of the long history of US aggression abroad and the particularly hostile nature of the Bush administration, makes the country’s defense a top priority.

For over 45 years Cubahas used valuable human and material resources to maintain its readiness to offer fierce resistance to enemy forces, making it extremely costly to try and occupy portions of the national territory.

The island’s military philosophy maintains that it is impossible to pacify a country occupied by an organized and determined population.

It is sufficient to remember Vietnam, victor over both French and US invasions, and Algeria, where French firepower hit a wall of popular resistance.

In those cases, just like in Iraq today, the most modern weaponry can not win over the systematic weakening of the invaders by organized resistance forces.

For years the country has worked to prepare its military readiness for a prolonged non-conventional resistance to an invasion. The Cuban slogan “Guerra de Todo el Pueblo” (AllOut People’s War) is not just propaganda for dissuasive purposes.

“In this type of war the massive arsenal of a superpower will be insufficient,” President Fidel Castro has pointed out. “With their overwhelming firepower they could conquer acountry but it will not be possible to administer or govern it if the population fights with determination against the occupiers.”

In his Second Epistle to US President George W. Bush on June 21, 2004, the leader of the Cuban Revolution said: “We are millions of women and men with enough weapons and over two hundred thousand well-trained officers andcommanders who know perfectly well how to use them under conditions of modern, sophisticated warfare, and we have a huge mass of combatants who are equally well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of those who are threatening us, despite their enormous military resources and the technological superiority of their weapons.”

These are realities that should be taken into account by those in the US government who still have their heads on straight and haven’t let themselves be blinded by hate and vengeance.

In the US, they should be very aware that Cubans are well informed of the threats and vengefulness emanating from the north and who have more than enough spiritual and material reasons to defend every inch of the their country to the death, convinced that nobody can defeat them.

In that light, Fidel Castro concluded his speech to the nation on July 26 by saying: “Those who are willing to die have no fear of your enormous power, of your unbridled rage, nor of your dangerous and cowardly threats against Cuba!”

Report The dogs are barking, Sancho, we must be doing something right. That emblematic phrase of Miguel de Cervantes uttered by Don Quixote continues to be valid as the ultra-right extremist groups in Miami continue to show their hate and rage against Cuba and its achievements.

At the same time, the criminal blockade imposed by the US over more than 4 decades is tightened by the recent measures of the Bush administration.

These are designed to stifle contact between United States and Cuban citizens, punish families with relatives on both sides of the Florida Straights and foment subversion against the island.

Despite 72 billion dollars in material loss from the embargo and another 54 million from damage caused by sabotage and terrorist actions organized from the US, Cuba continues to consolidate a just society.

This progress has been unstoppable despite the collapse of the socialist bloc and especially the Soviet Union, with whom the island maintained mutually beneficial economic relations.

When Cuba declared the Special Period in Peace Time in the early 1990s as a response to the crisis, it was based on the decision to develop the country using its own abilities.

Uniting around the country’s socialist project, the intelligence and audacity of its leaders and the Cuban spirit of resistance produced changes in the economy that allowed for a gradual, but still insufficient, recovery of the besieged economy.

>From 1995 to 2001 the economy grew at a healthy annual rate of 4.1%, superior to the average for Latin America during that period.

Among the many initiatives taken, the increase came from greater efficiency and productivity, more effective investments, and the using Cuban crude oil to generate electricity.

Besides increased production of goods and services an important impetus of the recovery includes high priority social projects initiated in the last four years in social security, education, health and culture.

The unemployment rate dropped to a mere 2.3% at the end of 2003, a figure enviable even in developed countries and unobtainable for the majority of the so-called Third World.

Cuban achievements in health go far beyond its borders. The Pan-American Health Organization has called exemplary the research and follow-up of genetic alterations in the Cuban population and the improved quality of life enjoyed by people with disabilities.

The international organization proposes extending this example to other nations.

Life expectancy in Cuba is now 77.1 years (20 more than at the time of the triumph of the revolution) and experts say it exceed 80 in the next five years. Meanwhile efforts are being made to lower even further the infant mortality rate of 6.3 per 1,000 live births.

Despite the unrelenting aggression from the US, the quality of life has risen to the extent that made the island an example of preventive medicine. Between 1963 and 1975, it dealt a mortal blow to polio, malaria and diphtheria, and reduced tuberculosis and tetanus to almost zero.

The island has vaccination programs to fight against whopping cough, measles, German measles, meningitis B and C, typhoid fever and viral hepatitis.

The hepatitis vaccine and another for haemophilus influenzae type B, obtained synthetically, are the only ones in the world and are elaborated at prestigious national institutions such as the Carlos J. Finlay Institute and the Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology Research Center.

Internationally acclaimed advances are the therapeutic carcinogenic vaccines and those conceived to fight tumors in the lungs, prostate and colon. More than 70,000 people suffering from malignant tumors and other disorders have been treated with Blue Scorpion toxin in Cuba.

Advances have also been reported in the search for a therapeutic vaccine against the HIV virus. In 2001, the island became the first country in Latin America to achieve international recognition for its health system, with the certification of the hepatitis B vaccine by the World Health Organization.

Despite the US economic blockade, Cuba is currently working to repair hundreds of health centers throughout the nation and expand the services offered, among them emergency cardiology.

At the same time the country shares its advances abroad by providing medical assistance in nations of Asia, Africa and Latin America, which infuriates our enemies.

The Cuban socio-economic strategy includes improving its education system.

The island provides free education for the entire population and university education now includes 300,000 students with classes now extended to all municipalities.

Despite the alarming world situation made worse by neoliberal globalization, the creative capacity of the Cuban revolution and its policy of equal opportunity has allowed for an unprecedented educational experiment based on intensive teacher training and providing the resources needed for their work.

The effort is part of the “Battle of Ideas” which President Fidel Castro says is far from limiting itself to “principles, theory, knowledge, culture, discussion and debate, destroying lies and planting truths,” and also is the equivalent of concrete deeds and actions.

In the last three years each classroom received a television and video to complement study programs. Computers are today an integral part of school and solar panels were installed in remote mountain schools so that no one was left out.

Besides the intensive teacher training to make possible a lower student-teacher ratio, intensive nursing courses and other educational opportunities including a program for social workers was established for young people.

No area of the Cuban economy has escaped the severe damage of the US blockade, but all report notable progress.

However, still far from satisfying all the growing needs of the population.

This development is manifested also in culture, sciences and sports to cite some of those receiving international recognition.

While a growing number of Cuban-Americans have a more open mind on the island, the nation’s accomplishments are met with further rage, hate and frustration from leaders of ultra rightwing linked unconditionally to the US and who dream of destroying the country where they were born by mistake.

"The foundation of every state is the education of its youth." -- Diogenes (412 - 323 BC)

The late January 1998 visit of the Roman Pontiff to the shores of revolutionary Cuba has pushed the Western press into conniption fits of joy, for implicit within every major dispatch is the heart felt hope that John Paul II will signal the end of the regime.

While no one knows what tomorrow will bring, the hopes of the voracious markets of materialist consumerism fuel the dreams that Cuba will soon return to the tender mercies of the pre-Revolutionary past, when the island was the whorehouse of the Caribbean, and a ripe reservoir of cheap, exploitable labor.

For over 35 years, the relatively small island has persevered in the struggle of going its own way, defying the colossus to the North, the US. For daring to exercise the right of self-determination, the US has tried for over a quarter of a century to strangle Cuba.

In Castro's remarkable state welcome address marking the Pope's visit, the 71 year old revolutionary condemned the blockade as a form of "slow genocide." He spoke powerfully and movingly of his youth in Jesuit schools where he was taught hatred and antagonism of non-Catholics, like Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims. He remembered going to colleges (which only the wealthy and well-to- do could afford) wondering, "where are the black people?"

The church of his youth did not change that outrageous reality, but the revolution did. Today, even in the face of the most repressive, and longest- lasting blockade in US history, education is free for all Cubans. Indeed, the literacy rate in Cuba (96%) is among the highest in the world.

Moreover, medical care is free in Cuba, or available to those that can pay for a very meager price.

The church didn't do this; the revolution did. Indeed, if "democracy" is such a holy blessing, let us not consider Cuba, but let us look to the United States.

Given public policy driven by big business interests, and the consequent whittling away of social programs for the poor, is higher education accessible to most Americans? Is medical care? Here, it is available to those who can afford it, a stark contrast to Cuba, which is always damned for its human rights violations by the Western press. What of the human right to learn? What of the human right to health care?

Here, the dollar is the deterrent of what happens to man. In Cuba, man is at the center of the social and political organization.

It is easy to talk about social problems, but it is quite another thing to do something about them.

Cuba, under Castro, in the face of a blockade that is a de facto act of war, has used its relatively meager resources to not only address serious social problems of the nation, but internationally as well. In 1976, Cuba sent troops to Angola where, at Coito Carnivale, their forces beat South Africa's armies, and thereby opened the door to the end of the Apartheid regime, and the emergence of the ANC as a political power in the region. Castro proudly exclaimed, "we are not only a Latin-American nation; we are an Afro-American nation also."

Cuban president Fidel Castro Ruz can be said to be a secular priest who has acted with the power of the state to redress the indignities and disabilities of the poor. The nation may be ragged, but it is not beaten. He has not preached only, he has practiced his creed of socialist revolution and restoration of basic human rights that are unimaginable in the bank vault of wealth in the West. Who has done more for the poor?

(1998)

but glad to see the last 3 contributions.

Soon...real soon.

Cuban Dr's doing good works in the Barrio - GOOD

Cuban sugar and tobacco exports causing fatal epidemics of Diebete's and Cancer - BAD

Cuba's lack of one single IMC speaks volumes. None of these Marxist-Leninist red fascist scumbags can stand free speech for five seconds. Then comes the CHEKA and the RED TERROR they all love. Goosestepping militaristic arseholes all die one day and it wont be long now for Castrato the clown who cant even liberate his own little island.

One word - Guantanamo

Makes a mockery of all the so called revolutionary bs as do the poisonous exports 40 years after.

>>> killing a few hundred thousand people no longer qualifies as "deterrant". It is holocaust. <<<

Whatever - I'm still a ways off criticality so you can cool yr jets.

>>> As for "Maybe if I could just quote JFK at this point...".. Why would you quote the president most responsible for the VIetnam war? <<<

John Fitzgerald Kerry was a war criminal in that war but he didn't start it. Let me quote a Castro supporter...

Subject: Kerry the warpig

Senator Kerry is a convincing war criminal and warmonger. Unlike some of his liberal apologists, he doesn't like to portray the Democrats as the consistently less aggressive of the two parties. It was, after all, Democratic - not Republican - presidents who launched the wars in Korea and Vietnam. The Republican Eisenhower's electoral appeal in 1952 was based on being the more peaceful of the two candidates. In 1960 Kennedy attacked the Republicans for the "missile gap", denouncing their weakness before the Soviet threat. Carter, not Reagan, launched the second cold war. And in 1992 Clinton was thundering against Bush senior's weakness on Cuba and China. Now Bush junior has accelerated militarism. But it is enough to remember that on the eve of 9/11, Hillary Clinton and Joseph Lieberman organised a letter, signed by nearly every Democratic senator, denouncing Bush's Middle East policies. They wanted more support for Israel.

Tariq Ali

>> As for censoring the web... No even you aren't as silly as Bob. But you have made a few calls for censoring MIM (but NOT when I am being stalked by neo-nazi "Bill" of the ARP - that is obviously acceptible in your books). <<

You seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit and called for some spam to be HIDDEN - not censored...HIDDEN.

Get it? Got it? Good. I accept yr appy polly logie.

DING DONG the witch is dead, the wick old witch, the Castro bitch. And so will all the others like him.

Calling all you Castrato wannabee's!

Send yr missives in to the GREEN LEFT WEEKLY formerly " Direct Action' who changed their name after failing to glom onto genuine workers movements and to try and glom onto genuine environmental movements.

Opportunistic liars of the world unite!

Comrades I regRAT to inform youse that the sacred flag of Cubano revolutione has LEFT from the GLW website.
It is feared that some right wing Amerikans may have stolen it and set up a virtual Guantanamo bay in the heart of socialist GLW la la land.

This MUST NOT STAND!

In order to mobilize against the right wing scumwads from Miami and Kyneton we must ORGANIZE a POPULAR FRONT with a SPECIAL COMMITTEE for the supression of counter revolution and Bay of PIGS two!

VIVA GLW LIBRE HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPR! VIVA CASTRATO NO BALLS CUBA!

I cannot comment on the politics’ of the Island state, because I view politics without enthusiasm…you can be bought…therefore idealists fall over themselves for the extra cash…they are only human...now correct me if I’m wrong... PR ...but didn’t Castro beat a western backed dictator who held power in Cuba and their Friends in Amerika have taken a dislike to Fidel ever since.
The poor island state had to have help once Amerika withdrew investment and it sought that help through Russia…so the communist idealism was bought saving face for a Fidel and Russia got a birds eye view of the Florida coast in return for its investment.... Now Cuba is hungry for the $ after the fall of Russia ... this makes perfect sense because the Cuban society is happy and stable right now with good health care and food and leadership, all that an island in the sun needs in fact, look for the oposite... Haiti... for comparrison...not Communist...and more bloodshed and fighting than in the annual spring sales down Burke Street.

is US a democracy or a sham?

Sure could use a marxist like Lee Harvey again...here's a new question?

Is Cuba comedy central?

In a just released Ol Geezara interview, despite what has been said a former senior officer for Saddam Hussein says that he only had one body double and ... yes it was Fidel.

Meanwhile the Caudillo says he is so cross with the new bans on Cuba he is giving up baseball.

It's graduation time and Cuba is full of honor students ..."Yes your honor, no your honor, not guilty your honor."

Fidel heard about the Popes trip to Lourdes and asked him out to the Bay of Pigs - he reckons that the water is holy there...holier than Lourdes I believe.

Florida is mopping up after Hurricane Charley. Thankfully it just destroyed the voting booths.

In fact winds were so strong, Cuban immigrants swam to Florida in under eight minutes.

Hurricane Charley has become the most destructive tropical storm to hit Cuba's western Havana province since 1915, killing four people, damaging 11,000 homes and knocking down hundreds of power line polls.

Another 5,000 homes were damaged in the rest of Cuba and the western province of Pinar del Rio lost power.

Travelling south to north, the hurricane cut its destructive swath through Havana Province in just two hours on Friday.

The storm damaged 502 schools and 22 health centres in Pinar del Rio and Havana provinces, officials said.

Residents in the capital, Havana, were still without power, which authorities were promising to restore to 80 per cent of the city today.

Maximum leader Caudillo Fidel Castro said he is never EVER having the pope back for any visits.

"You seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit and called for some spam to be HIDDEN - not censored...HIDDEN."

Well if hiding posts isn't censorship... Then I suggest that all Pr's posts be hidden. This week his rantings have gotten so agressive, paranoid, stupid and ultra-right that he even makes Spinifex and Nazihunter look moderate (he has actually outdone them on redbaiting and accusations of "anti-semitism" at every mention of the P word).

dsp leadership assume dominant baboon like position. with full authority they endorse the human rights abuse. sect cohesion demands that they must.

Hey, 'brian', why don't you ask John Pilger what he thinks of Cuba?

LOL

Jew-baiting half-wit 'brian' recently made a complete fool of himself at IndyMedia Melbourne by fraudulently claiming to be in a personal relationship with John Pilger.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/68949_comment.php#69046

"...Nice picture, but i asked John and he said hes never had his picture taken with saddam or his painting...."

It's on his website at ;
http://pilger.carlton.com/iraq

Without a doubt, brian, you are the most stupid individual on the face of the planet.

i did ask John, he said its a wonderful place, and a damned sight better than the US of israel. Ther Cuban soldiers arent dying for a sneaky foreign power

You must be jewish, and you feel you been fed a bit of cheese. Try some real food: go visit Johns website.

Ive no idea who the stupdiest person on earth is. Have you been doing a survey?

I've no idea who the stupidest person on earth is, either, but this site's own pr would have to be a good candidate. Has anyone else noticed, but he believes he has found evidence of Communist Cuba's human rights abuses in... the US concentration camp at Guantanamo bay. Someone should point out to this braindead moron that the Guantanamo concentration camp isn't actually in Communist Cuba, its in Cuban territory illegally held by Cuba's mortal enemy, the USA.

What are you doing here?

".....the Guantanamo concentration camp isn't actually in Communist Cuba, its in Cuban territory illegally held by Cuba's mortal enemy....."

How is the USA illegally holding this land?

I thought the USA were leasing the land from Cuba on some peppercorn deal.

Please explain the status illegal or otherwise.

The US has had Guantanamo Bay since the beginning of last century. After the revolution in 1959 they fired all the CUbans working on Guantanamo. The Cubans could not remove the US base so they surrounded it with kilometers of landmines in order to keep the Americans contained.

The AMericans did consider putting the prisoners from the war against Afghanistan on US territories such as Guam, but Guantanamo was a better option because it was not US territory and thanks to the shark-infested waters and Cuban landmines is impossible to escape from.

Thanks.
I knew a lot of that but I have seen on the TV or read that the US were paying rent each year on a 99 year lease or similar with options of extending the term.

I remember hearing or reading that the US were not going to renew the lease but then we had the War in Afghanistan and we know the rest.

So should illegal be replaced with immoral?

If at First You Don't Succeed: Killing Castro
What exactly did Castro do to make the CIA attempt to kill him with exploding clams?

The United States has always been embarrassed by the communistic tendencies of its swarthy neighbor, Cuba, and had a healthy contempt for Cuba's dictator Fidel Castro. Over the years there have been some historically prominent attempts to unseat Fidel (U.S. government-supported Cuban expatriates tried to invade Cuba with disastrous consequences in the Bay of Pigs fiasco), and also some historically neglected ones. In a fit of diplomatic self-righteousness, Senate hearings following Watergate probed into "Alleged Assassination Plots Involving Foreign Leaders" in 1975. These are neatly summarized in Jonathan Vankin and John Whalen's 50 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time (recently expanded to 60, you're much more likely to find this edition). The complete list:

In August 1960, the earliest attempt had the CIA's Office of Medical Services dose some of Castro's cigars with a virulent toxin; they were then slipped into his private stash during a trip to the United Nations. No luck. About the same time the New York Police Department learned the CIA aborted similar plans with cigars loaded with, yes, explosives.

The CIA's Technical Services Division planned to lace Castro's cigars with a super-hallucinogen (perhaps BZ), to embarrass him publicly by causing a wild acid trip during a public appearance.

The CIA also planned to embarrass Fidel by sneaking thallium salts into Castro's shoes; thallium salts are a "potent depilatory that would cause his beard, eyebrows, and pubic hair to fall out... like a follicle deprived Samson."

Upon learning that Castro enjoyed scuba diving, the Technical Services Division purchased a diving suit and contaminated the regulator with tuberculosis bacilli. Vankin and Whalen tell us that "Nothing if not scrupulous, they also treated the suit itself with fungus spores that would cause the rare skin disease, madura foot." An American lawyer negotiating for the release of Bay of Pigs prisoners was supposed to give Castro the suit, but unfortunately a shuttle diplomat decided to give Fidel an uncontaminated suit instead and spare the U.S. from a potential diplomatic brouhaha.

Undaunted and still intrigued with this scuba diving idea, Technical Services hatched a plan to place an exploding conch shell at one of Castro's favorite diving spots. This was scrapped as being too unwieldy and impractical, as even the most casual observer might have suspected foul play.

In his autobiography Shadow Warrior, former CIA operative Felix Rodriguez claims he tried to travel to Cuba three times on sojourns to assassinate Castro. Vankin and Whalen detail: "In 1987, asked by the Iran-Contra committee whether he took part in the CIA's attempt to poison Castro's favorite smokes, Rodriguez replied indignantly, 'No sir, I did not. But I did volunteer to kill that son of a bitch in 1961 with a telescopic rifle.'"

And in the grandest vision of all, Vankin and Whalen describe a false prophet: "Perhaps the most visionary proposal came from the fertile mind of General Edward Lansdale, who supervised the Kennedy Administration's covert war on Castro. The general hoped to spark a counterrevolution by spreading the word to devout Cuban Catholics that the Second Coming was imminent and that Castro was none other than the anti-Christ. At the appointed hour, Christ, Himself, would surface off the shores of Cuba aboard an American submarine as star shell flares illuminated the heavens. In a pique of Cold War rapture, it was hoped, the Cubans would rise up and spontaneously overthrow their satanic leader."

In the war against communism, the American government contemplated invoking no less a figure than Jesus Christ. John Wayne would have been proud.

-----

"In 1942, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), investicated the potentioal of marijuana as a truth drug to be used in the interrogation of enemy agents and captives. The first extract was termed honey oil. Tasteless and make from hashish, it was to be added to the food of interrogation subjects. When is was tested on OSS guinea pigs, they broke out in peals of laughter, talked incessantly, became paranoidd or clammed up. The research was abandoned in favour of developing LSD for the same purpose. However, the researchers published a report on marijuana which stated that the commonest effect of honey oil was fits of laughter. Anslinger, who had been attacking marijuana for over a decade as brain-destroying narcotic, was a signatory to the report."

From "Cannabis in History" by Martin Booth.

----

The CIA should stop using so much "honey oil".

That post by ' pr again' is not by me - I honestly don't know why they bother. CoinTelPro type stuff just doesn't work these days does it?

My heart bleeds for the peoples clinics of the Peoples Republic of the people. It does , truly it does. I trust this sacrifice by the people will lead directly to the reinstatement of the glorious flag of the people at the peoples website GLW. Hasta La Victoria Siempre!

As for Gitmo my point is that the Maximum Leader can not claim control over this Island he lords it over so why does he have the slightest revolutionary street cred!?

Except among moronic Trolls/Trots I mean.

"If surviving assassination were an Olympic attempt, I would win the gold medal,"
- Fidel Castro

And the winner is ...CHAVES! ( thunderous roar from the mob )

Hugo Chavez won 58 per cent of the recall referendum - an excellent result in any democratic election.

However, it also means that a full 42 per cent of the Venezualan people were quite prepared to recall President Chavez.

Does it not?

Also, let me guess - when Chavez is voted out of office - as eventually happens in most democratic systems - will that be denounced as a "coup"?

After all, the idiot left here have been announcing "coup attampts" against Chavez for over a year now.

I have a funny feeling you wouldn't be celebrating if ever they had a multi-party election in Cuba, would you?

And, don't you think it strange - given your hysterical ranting - that this election was supervised bya former US President in order to assure the world it was fair?

Chaves was voted in democratically. He was re-elected democratically, he democratically abided by the constitution when a recall petition was presented, and he ddemocratically won the recall vote as well. All this despite the numerous coup attempts (including attempts to cripple the economy by stopping oil production, US mercenaries, opposition organised violence, an actual coup that was reversed within days and Columbian mercenaries). He was also one of the main army people who stopped the coup in 1992 and ousted the dictator and IMMEDIATELY (the next day) called an election.

There is NO OTHER LEADER ON EARTH WITH SUCH SHINNING DEMOCRATIC CREDENTIALS. Venesuela represents the first real step in years towards a succesfull and democratic left.

LONG LIVE THE BOLIVARIAN REVOLUTION!

BUT that does not mean 42% want in the 'opposition' Nor does the referendum indicate WHY the 42 % vote 'si'.
Does it mean 'si' we dont want chavez and his bloody bolivarian revolution, give us the fat cats.
OR does it mean, 'si' we dont want chavez BECAUSE he has not fulfilled his promises, but nor do we want the fat cats
etc etc

MEANWHILE 58 % said no, and, we WANT Chavez AND his revolution.
So, you see that 42 % is frangemented and could waver: the 58 % is unified

58% want the Bolivarian revolution to continue and you just can't handle the idea that a peacefull democratic revolution is possible if it isn't lead by middle-class (Chaves supporters are mostly poor) anglo-saxon "anarchists". Anybody from any political perspective in Venezuela is able to express their opinions and participate in the grass-roots (as well as electoral) democracy which is being set up. But the majority in Venezuela clearly recognise that were they to push change any faster than they already are (which is pretty damn fast anyway) they would destabalise the country and lose everything. But then that is probably what YOU wan't. To try to undermine support for a peacefull democratic revolution from the left is the most dispicable piece of opportunistic shit immaginable.

This is only the seccond revolution that has been both peacefull and democratic (despite the US best efforts at sabotage). The first was Grenada - which was only defeated after an assasination of the president and a US invasion; which brought more troops onto the island than there were actual residents (about 100,000) and clogged the streets so full of US tanks that people could not even walk around the city. That is what it took to defeat 100,000 peacefull revolutionaries. The Venezuelan revolution - with their much bigger population and massive oil reserves - continuing is the US's ultimate nightmare.

Go learn a little about Venezuela and Chaves (NOT just by reading american propaganda disguised as "anarchism") then come back and try again.

Chaves was voted in democratically. He was re-elected democratically, he democratically abided by the constitution when a recall petition was presented, and he ddemocratically won the recall vote as well. All this despite the numerous coup attempts (including attempts to cripple the economy by stopping oil production, US mercenaries, opposition organised violence, an actual coup that was reversed within days and Columbian mercenaries). He was also one of the main army people who stopped the coup in 1992 and ousted the dictator and IMMEDIATELY (the next day) called an election.

There is NO OTHER LEADER ON EARTH WITH SUCH SHINNING DEMOCRATIC CREDENTIALS. Venesuela represents the first real step in years towards a succesfull and democratic left.

LONG LIVE THE BOLIVARIAN REVOLUTION!

you seem to have misunderstood me. I support Chavez and his bolivarian revolution. I was being arch in that post. I have been following Chavez and his fine work for some years, and certainly am aware of the forces arrayed against him, both internal(the opposition) and without(the US). I will continue to aplaud his efforts as long as he has the welfare of the Venezuelan people in mind
So take care how you read my posts: learn to appreciate irony.

Oops
by WE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tuesday August 17, 2004 at 06:04 PM

Sorry Brian. But the reason I interpreted it as serious is that I have actually heard such arguments made by people - especially on this site. Irony doesn't always come across clearly on the web.

with the green left weakly supporting gross human rights violation. chanting on the street for croation ustashe, arming the bosnians, invading east timor for oil. all supported and condoned by leadership of the castroite sectlett

"nominate me" Asked about Guantanamo: "How is the USA illegally holding this land? I thought the USA were leasing the land from Cuba on some peppercorn deal.
Please explain the status illegal or otherwise."

The US were renting the land on a pepppercorn deal, sighned with the régime they installed in 1901. Since the 1959 revolution the Cubans have not accepted the rent because they wanted their territory back. Anyway, a few years ago the lease ran out making its continued occupation totally illegal.

pr pronounced:
"my point is that the Maximum Leader can not claim control over this Island he lords it over so why does he have the slightest revolutionary street cred!? "

So Castro led a revolution that liberated an entire country from the US, except for the Guantanamo naval base. In pr's view he does not have the slightest revolutionary street cred. This is reserved for the brave likes of pr, who does such brave, radical things as threatening people on the internet.

You really are a delusional moron, pr. Go play with sect watcher!